(realized I posted this in the wrong thread- my b!)
Hi Rev! Excited that you're doing this Q&A!
I've noticed that the ELCA publishes a lot of statements "condemning racism" in our nation and world. But, I have seen very little published by the ELCA that acknowledges our OWN racism. The closest thing I've found is a short section in the 2019 apology that talks about Lutherans' complicity in slavery. As you call for in your writing, the ELCA must be honest about who we are as the whitest denomination in America and make reparations to Black people in America in order to confess the horrors of our own sins of racism and white supremacy. But unless I'm missing something, it seems like the ELCA is lacking on that whole honesty part.
I'm sure that there are tons of stories and documents of the ELCA's racism and participation in white supremacy, but I wonder if it would be helpful for these things to be more public and accessible (especially if the ELCA isn't going to come out and say it). I'm wondering- do you know of any gaps in the current research on the history of racism/white supremacy in Lutheranism or the ELCA? Would furthering this research be helpful to your project? I'm in divinity school now and have the time and resources to devote to this sort of project!
honestly the document you are looking for, the one I talk about in my book, doesn't truly exist. For a theological document to truly have the life of and the indwelling of the Spirit it has to cause, compel, or help co create the needed change in the flaws and brokenness the document is supposed to address. There are statements condemning it that ELCA could market better. But that's all the ELCA does is market these documents hardly ever implements them. This makes me believe the statement, the treatise, the new confessions doesn't exist yet.
Hello. Does the Lutheran world view and theology still give you any gifts or kinds of strengthening? I mean things like Lutheran theology and Biblical interpretation (if there is a distinctively Lutheran approach to the Bible). Your comment about Luther and grace expressed a certain disaffection. Is it still positive for you?
I would say the Lutheran framework, the framework in which I have exopeteirnced the most liberation thus far in my life was a great and continues to a be a great launching pad. But this is a movement, protestantism, that was started with beefs about church abuse and money. like the first beef was you aint got to pay to get into the Kin-dom. The way in is free, now what? This is where you sense my dissatisfaction. Not with the Creators gifts, or the frameworks we first noticed it with, however flawed, are amazing, but what we fail to do with them. I hope this makes sense :)
Pr. Lenny ,this is a Jubilee Collective question. I realize it is hard to make any plans for the future at this time. What will the ultimate worship space be for the people of Jubilee Collective? Will it always be a separate place, but under the umbrella of Messiah Lutheran, or is the goal to bring the two together for worship in one space? Thank you for all you have done and continue to do.
Hey Laurie! I think that Jubille is going to do what Juibilee does. It truly is s thing all its own. But from what I can tell from the early content and character of this emerging community would they worship with the people of Messiah? Hell yeah. Many of them are "messiah" folks. But is the kind of community that would find harmony with messiah the way it is, probably not. Laurie they dont even take any of my shit lolz !
What does interfaith/multifaith work mean for you in your ministry? I am someone who aspires to make that kind of work a big part of my ministry in the future, but has a hard time seeing a balance between effective interfaith/multifaith and work that becomes more of a social club than actual action. IDK if that makes sense lol, but hopefully you get the gist. Thanks!
No justice by committee is awful. I say you use the existing interfaith networks that are available. But this work doesn't have to be so open that no-one can step forward. Like just because there is someone who isn't queer affirming that doesn't mean you never say anything. So look for looser and less formal coalitions that allow more expansiveness. Typically there will be a flock of progressive rabbi's. This is always a good thing. Stick with them. So look at existing structures and see if radical relationship changes them. But if it doesn't and you know it after like 3 months, create something looser and less formal with those who want to be more radical. Thats how the BIPOC Faith Leaders Council for #Blacklives happened. We saw BIPOC leaders with the Mayor and the cops and not with the people. We were like "Fuck That" Pastorally of course.
Is there an example you could share of a time when you felt a conversation or encounter led to significant change in someone's heart or understanding of racism? I live in a very conservative area in the middle of Kansas and it is sometimes difficult for me to imagine those around me budging from their pre-conceived notions. Thank you for your writing and work and your time in answering these questions.
Thank you for that incredibly generous offer! I am going to decline because as I sit here in my privileged white, heterosexual, cisgender life, this should not be about me. While it is discouraging to be surrounded by Trump flags, confederate flags, and the associated attitudes, just knowing you have many stories saying things aren’t hopeless is enough. Thank you!
Hi Lenny. I hear you don't talk much about the BIPOC Faith Leaders Council because it's a sacred space. I wonder if you would share a few words about what grace that space offers you.
It was the only way I survived this summer. And I think the whole Council agrees. It's why we move so slow. We are always afraid we may lose what we have and what we have is healing and life. Thats rare for BIPOC peoples here in the PNW as you know. But I have to tell you for me personally I have been searching for radical Black Elders I could follow and learn from. Who could help me grow as a Black Queer Leader in faith. Who could teach me how to grow up to be an elder. Honestly this spaced saved my faith and possibly my soul. Being locked up in my house and only coming out to be shot at by police apparently isn't healthy for formerly incarnated folks. The council loved me through it. I don't want to act like I had no part in its formation or goals or even direction. I hate false humility bullshit. No I wanted us to be something different than what we are. I am so grateful we are what we are. Does that make sense?
Yes. Totally makes sense. Thank you for sharing that. I am very grateful to have gotten to know you and witness your living and loving out loud. I'm especially grateful to know that you have respite, sanctuary, and the embrace of elders to care for your spirit and nervous system/body.
I am simply saying that our sacred stories and the most ethereal thing that we, Grace, something have nothing to do with, well its really the only thing of worth in this republic.
(realized I posted this in the wrong thread- my b!)
Hi Rev! Excited that you're doing this Q&A!
I've noticed that the ELCA publishes a lot of statements "condemning racism" in our nation and world. But, I have seen very little published by the ELCA that acknowledges our OWN racism. The closest thing I've found is a short section in the 2019 apology that talks about Lutherans' complicity in slavery. As you call for in your writing, the ELCA must be honest about who we are as the whitest denomination in America and make reparations to Black people in America in order to confess the horrors of our own sins of racism and white supremacy. But unless I'm missing something, it seems like the ELCA is lacking on that whole honesty part.
I'm sure that there are tons of stories and documents of the ELCA's racism and participation in white supremacy, but I wonder if it would be helpful for these things to be more public and accessible (especially if the ELCA isn't going to come out and say it). I'm wondering- do you know of any gaps in the current research on the history of racism/white supremacy in Lutheranism or the ELCA? Would furthering this research be helpful to your project? I'm in divinity school now and have the time and resources to devote to this sort of project!
honestly the document you are looking for, the one I talk about in my book, doesn't truly exist. For a theological document to truly have the life of and the indwelling of the Spirit it has to cause, compel, or help co create the needed change in the flaws and brokenness the document is supposed to address. There are statements condemning it that ELCA could market better. But that's all the ELCA does is market these documents hardly ever implements them. This makes me believe the statement, the treatise, the new confessions doesn't exist yet.
Hello. Does the Lutheran world view and theology still give you any gifts or kinds of strengthening? I mean things like Lutheran theology and Biblical interpretation (if there is a distinctively Lutheran approach to the Bible). Your comment about Luther and grace expressed a certain disaffection. Is it still positive for you?
I would say the Lutheran framework, the framework in which I have exopeteirnced the most liberation thus far in my life was a great and continues to a be a great launching pad. But this is a movement, protestantism, that was started with beefs about church abuse and money. like the first beef was you aint got to pay to get into the Kin-dom. The way in is free, now what? This is where you sense my dissatisfaction. Not with the Creators gifts, or the frameworks we first noticed it with, however flawed, are amazing, but what we fail to do with them. I hope this makes sense :)
*experienced sorry early here on the flake coast
No problem, I knew what you meant. Thanks.
Pr. Lenny ,this is a Jubilee Collective question. I realize it is hard to make any plans for the future at this time. What will the ultimate worship space be for the people of Jubilee Collective? Will it always be a separate place, but under the umbrella of Messiah Lutheran, or is the goal to bring the two together for worship in one space? Thank you for all you have done and continue to do.
Hey Laurie! I think that Jubille is going to do what Juibilee does. It truly is s thing all its own. But from what I can tell from the early content and character of this emerging community would they worship with the people of Messiah? Hell yeah. Many of them are "messiah" folks. But is the kind of community that would find harmony with messiah the way it is, probably not. Laurie they dont even take any of my shit lolz !
But that's not a messiah thing. Thats a young upstart community thing. Hope that makes sense!
What does interfaith/multifaith work mean for you in your ministry? I am someone who aspires to make that kind of work a big part of my ministry in the future, but has a hard time seeing a balance between effective interfaith/multifaith and work that becomes more of a social club than actual action. IDK if that makes sense lol, but hopefully you get the gist. Thanks!
No justice by committee is awful. I say you use the existing interfaith networks that are available. But this work doesn't have to be so open that no-one can step forward. Like just because there is someone who isn't queer affirming that doesn't mean you never say anything. So look for looser and less formal coalitions that allow more expansiveness. Typically there will be a flock of progressive rabbi's. This is always a good thing. Stick with them. So look at existing structures and see if radical relationship changes them. But if it doesn't and you know it after like 3 months, create something looser and less formal with those who want to be more radical. Thats how the BIPOC Faith Leaders Council for #Blacklives happened. We saw BIPOC leaders with the Mayor and the cops and not with the people. We were like "Fuck That" Pastorally of course.
That's really helpful :) Thanks!
Is there an example you could share of a time when you felt a conversation or encounter led to significant change in someone's heart or understanding of racism? I live in a very conservative area in the middle of Kansas and it is sometimes difficult for me to imagine those around me budging from their pre-conceived notions. Thank you for your writing and work and your time in answering these questions.
Wow yes I mean Hundreds. Hey you seem like you are struggling would you like to chat for 15 via phone for zoom? Here is a link to do that. https://calendly.com/lennyaduncan/15-minute-chat-or-check-in
Thank you for that incredibly generous offer! I am going to decline because as I sit here in my privileged white, heterosexual, cisgender life, this should not be about me. While it is discouraging to be surrounded by Trump flags, confederate flags, and the associated attitudes, just knowing you have many stories saying things aren’t hopeless is enough. Thank you!
Hi Lenny. I hear you don't talk much about the BIPOC Faith Leaders Council because it's a sacred space. I wonder if you would share a few words about what grace that space offers you.
It was the only way I survived this summer. And I think the whole Council agrees. It's why we move so slow. We are always afraid we may lose what we have and what we have is healing and life. Thats rare for BIPOC peoples here in the PNW as you know. But I have to tell you for me personally I have been searching for radical Black Elders I could follow and learn from. Who could help me grow as a Black Queer Leader in faith. Who could teach me how to grow up to be an elder. Honestly this spaced saved my faith and possibly my soul. Being locked up in my house and only coming out to be shot at by police apparently isn't healthy for formerly incarnated folks. The council loved me through it. I don't want to act like I had no part in its formation or goals or even direction. I hate false humility bullshit. No I wanted us to be something different than what we are. I am so grateful we are what we are. Does that make sense?
Yes. Totally makes sense. Thank you for sharing that. I am very grateful to have gotten to know you and witness your living and loving out loud. I'm especially grateful to know that you have respite, sanctuary, and the embrace of elders to care for your spirit and nervous system/body.
What do you mean when you describe grace as a commodity?
I am simply saying that our sacred stories and the most ethereal thing that we, Grace, something have nothing to do with, well its really the only thing of worth in this republic.
Craig I have answer for you. Hold please.